PODCAST: Why Muscle Soreness Happens & How to Recover Faster

ZACH MOORE: Welcome to On Health with Houston Methodist. I'm Zach Moore, I'm a photographer and editor here and I’m also a longtime podcaster.

KATIE MCCALLUM: I’m Katie McCallum, former researcher turned health writer, mostly writing for our blogs.

ZACH: Katie, do you ever get sore after a workout?

[Laughter]

KATIE: I do, I do. How about you?

ZACH: Yeah, you're working out and you wonder, like, “Am I ever not gonna be sore again,” sometimes.

KATIE: There are those times where you definitely overdo it.

ZACH: Yeah.

KATIE: And I've had the same thing where I'm just like, “I am still sore, it’s been a couple days.” Or it’s, like, really sore and you're like, am I too sore?

ZACH: Mm-hmm.

KATIE: Yeah, no I'm right there with you.

ZACH: But, no pain no gain, right?

KATIE: They say that.

ZACH: Who is they, I don’t know, but that's what they say.

KATIE: Yeah, I mean, I don’t know, the CrossFit gyms of the world. It’s kind of one of the more annoying parts of exercise. You, like, finally get into a good exercise routine again and then you just, like, can't sit down in your chair, or like getting out of bed hurts, and you're like, “Oh gosh, why do I do this?”

ZACH: Or your calf starts hurting, you know, like, did I just -- Your mind goes so many places.

KATIE: Yeah.

ZACH: Did I just pull my ACL? You don’t -- you don’t know.

KATIE: No, it’s true. Like, what's uncomfortable or discomfort, and what's, like, pain that should keep you from working out again?

ZACH: That is always the struggle, right? ‘Cause you wanna be pushing yourself because if you're just, “Oh this is so easy,” well then you're not doing it right.

KATIE: Yeah.

ZACH: But if it’s like, “I can't do this at all,” you're also not doing it right so it’s finding that middle ground, right?

KATIE: Right, right. And, we are gonna talk about all things muscle soreness today.

ZACH: Excellent. And who did we talk to about this, Katie?

KATIE: We talked to Doctor David Braunreiter he is a Sports Medicine Physician here at Houston Methodist. We cover why our muscles get sore, if it’s lactic acid. I know that's, like, kind of a common thing we hear about, is that true or false. We also talk about ways to relieve muscle soreness, can it be prevented, pretty much everything you've ever wondered about muscle soreness, we get an answer to today.

Hi, Dr. Braunreiter, great to be here with you today.

DR. DAVID BRAUNREITER: Thanks for having me.

KATIE: So, I wouldn’t say muscle soreness is one of the, you know, worst parts of working out. I think the actual working out, if you're like me and you don’t love exercise, is probably the worst part. But, muscle soreness might be up there with inconvenient parts of exercise. When I think of it I think of it as a little annoying because it’s also often delayed, is that right?

DR. BRAUNREITER: Yeah. So, there's a acronym we use called D-O-M-S or DOMS, which stands for, “Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness.” This usually happens when you do a workout or an exercise that you're really not accustomed to. Most will be complaining about problems like, leg workouts. Like, you haven’t done a squat exercise for quite a while and then you have trouble getting in and out of your chair, up or down stairs for a few days.

KATIE: That sounds very familiar.

DR. BRAUNREITER: I'm sure.

[Laughter]

KATIE: You know, I know you also take care of some athletes, actual athletes around Houston and stuff like that. Are they just like us, do they get sore too?

DR. BRAUNREITER: Of course.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: It’s a human condition.

KATIE: Okay, well that's nice to know. So, to that point, I mean, I think when a lot of us think of muscle soreness it’s more of an inconvenience. But, to take things  back a step, you know, what is physically happening in our muscles when they get sore after exercise?

DR. BRAUNREITER: You know, if you're talking about this problem, DOMS, nobody really knows. I mean, it’s been studied for a long time, we have theories, theories about electrolyte imbalances, sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium. But, I think what it may come down to is that the nerves and the muscle kinda get overly excited and they kind fire these pain signals to your brain and that causes you to contract the muscle and it’s hard to move it, and it takes a while to disappear. A few days sometimes even. But, getting a firm handle on it is not really clear.

KATIE: To that pint, why does it sometimes take a couple days for that pain to kind of, like, start up and -- you'd think your nerves would be irritated, like, immediately, and you'd be sore right after. Or, sometimes I feel like it’s a day or two before I feel it.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Well, I neglected the other one that people talk about, which is lactate, which is…

KATIE: Yes.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Lactic acid, which is commonly referred to and thought of as -- Especially with more of the resistance based workouts. And, you don’t necessarily have the same trouble with going for a run for, you know, like a 2 mile run and you hadn’t run for a while. You're not gonna necessarily have this problem from that but if you went and did leg day for the first time in months you're gonna have it. So, it’s thought that lactate -- ‘Cause, lactate is gonna be produced more in that type of a workout environment than a more aerobic environment like a run. We don’t really know, ‘cause, the lactate would come and clear out from your system, you know, fairly quickly after a workout’s over ‘cause your system has the ability to detect all of that and correct it. So, why the next day -- That's the puzzle that we haven’t been able to really solve.

KATIE: Since you brought up lactate I -- you know, I was gonna ask about that. I've kinda read both sides of it: “Lactic acid causes muscle soreness,” and I've also read, “No, that's a myth and not true,” so are you saying the reality is well, we don’t know. It might, it might not?

DR. BRAUNREITER: Yeah. And, again it’s not really clear. We -- I mean, there's eno -- You could probably do a literature search, don’t do Google, just do a literature search. There's all sorts of varying ideas tried and not necessarily consistently proven from the use of pickle juice, pre-workouts or during or afterwards, adding in electrolyte-based drinks, even going after for an aerobic workout like a run after a workout to try to clear out the lactic acid.

KATIE: I had not heard that one, that sounds like the most inconvenient of the options you already worked out, what, doing more?

DR. BRAUNREITER: And that's an extremely short list of all of the things that have been tried for sure, but definitely the reason for this to show up and then dissipate over days is -- It’s not muscle damage, I mean, that's been pretty much substantiated. It’s not a damage or an injury, it’s a phenomenon.

KATIE: Okay. So, that's interesting ‘cause I think I have still been under that assumption that the soreness is from the damage of just, you know, you've worked your muscles and they break down and rebuild and that's a part of muscle growth. So, is that still true, that when we’re working out we’re breaking down our muscles and rebuilding 'em and that's how we get stronger?

DR. BRAUNREITER: Yes.

KATIE: Okay. But it’s not linked to soreness?

DR. BRAUNREITER: Well, you can get sore which -- But, the delayed onset soreness that we’re talking about is different. Because, if you're in a routine workout regimen you're going to see, you know, gains throughout the regimen if you have like a plan. Working with a personal trainer say you're going to get, I don’t know, pick a exercise like a bench press, common one. Then I'm gonna try to get my bench press stronger or a bigger number. You're not gonna be consistently sore doing that, doing it in the right progression, although you are still creating -- You know, on a microscopic, or scientific level, you're creating some minor muscle damage that causes the muscle cells to adapt and grow.

KATIE: Gotcha. Okay. No, that makes a lot of sense. So then to that point is soreness one of the signs that we might be overdoing it? Like, are the two linked? Is it a sign that, “Hey, you might have overworked in this workout?”

DR. BRAUNREITER: For certain for DOMS.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: You know, but how do you know the difference? I mean, it’s hard to tell. I mean, a lot of people that take the hiatus from a workout routine and jump back in especially when they get to be older adults.

KATIE: Yes, this is me.

[Laughter]

DR. BRAUNREITER: You're gonna, yeah. You know when you say --

KATIE: I know what I do, yeah.

DR. BRAUNREITER: “Well, when I was in high school this is what I used to do so I'm just gonna step in like there was never a break, and I'm just gonna go do what I used to do and expect that I'm gonna have the same results.” And then they end up paying for it later. It’s not a dangerous or a bad thing it’s just a thing.

KATIE: Yeah.

DR. BRAUNREITER: You know, but if you're sore from a workout that you're accustomed to, that's not novel, that would be a sign that you may pay more attention to.

KATIE: Okay, that's interesting, ‘cause I was gonna ask about how do you tell, you know, can soreness ever be a bad thing or a sign for you to take note of and change your workout? So, it sounds like sometimes it can be.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Sometimes it can be.

KATIE: Okay. I definitely do the thing where we go hiking a few times a year and as everybody from Houston knows it’s very hard to prep for hiking outdoors. You can do it on a treadmill maybe but outdoors we have no hills and things like that and so I go hiking and I go from very little elevation to, you know, 500 feet of elevation in a couple miles. And, the next two days after I'm just, like, I'm in so much pain. How do you know when it’s pain -- I call it pain, but how do you know when it’s pain and when it’s just soreness?

DR. BRAUNREITER: It’s funny that we redefine these words because they kinda mean the same thing, in a way. But, I would describe soreness as more of an all over as opposed to a specific spot.

KATIE: Oh, okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Like, a part of your biceps, or a part of your thigh muscle would be a pain thing to me. A soreness would be something that the whole area hurts.

KATIE: Yeah.

DR. BRAUNREITER: And, it wouldn’t be something that you could say happened immediately, it was more of a delay in onset whereas a pain would be something that would be more related to something you just did.

KATIE: Okay. Can your joints get sore?

DR. BRAUNREITER: Oh. Of course.

KATIE: Okay. So is joint soreness and muscle soreness similar or different?

DR. BRAUNREITER: No. Joints that hurt you need to pay more attention to because you have to think that, really joints they're operated by muscles to move but the cartilage and the cushioning in the joints you'd have to think there may be a problem with one of tho -- If that happens that that would be what you have to think about.

KATIE: But, can they just get sore?

DR. BRAUNREITER: No, I would -- No, if you're having trouble like that the com -- a common joint pain, especially if you're thinking about a younger adult or even a teen, the knee is a common place to have pain, but it’s not a cartilage problem per say. It’s a friction problem where the knee cap or the patella is not lined up correctly with the way the leg operates during a run or an activity, and it just gets sore. Like, you put on a brand new pair of shoes that needs to be broken in. You didn’t really ruin your foot, you just made it sore while you were getting the shoe to adapt to your foot.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: So, it’s not always a sign of something bad, and that would be considered a joint pain. Whereas,  you know, let's say you have a 50 something year old adult who is starting a running program or an exercise routine and is developing joint pain in his knee, or her knee. That you have to think differently about because the context of what you're looking at is different.

KATIE: Gotcha. Another -- kinda back to the muscle soreness, is muscle soreness ever a reason to skip a workout? So, for instance, what I'm talking about, we go hiking, you know, it’s our third day of hiking I'm starting to get pretty sore. Should I skip that hike or is it okay to keep going and push through it?

DR. BRAUNREITER: It’s not always the best advice to say push through pain.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: But it’s not necessarily a bad thing to do a lower intensity.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Remember we said we couldn’t really pin down where the real true source of DOMS is from right?  So you're not really in a damaged state, from a structural perspective, but getting back on the horse to a lesser degree to do some work is never necessarily a bad thing. It can also alleviate some of the stiffness that comes with the activity. Just -- maybe just don’t push it as hard.

[Music]

KATIE: Up after the break, more with Doctor Braunreiter.

[Music to signal a brief interjection in the interview]

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[Sound effect signals return to the interview]

KATIE: Is it possible to prevent sore muscles all together? You know, I think we've decoupled the fact that they have to be an inevitable part of building muscle, can you just -- Is there something I can do to just never have sore muscles again?

DR. BRAUNREITER: Never is a very tough word.

KATIE: Yeah.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Right?

KATIE: I like the extremes here if you can't tell.

DR. BRAUNREITER: I can tell. Never is hard. To limit the potential risk, being in good physical condition first, right. So, that also includes appropriate things like warming up, building up the intensity of your workout routines gradually over time, staying accustomed to what you're doing allows for that. You can add in flexibility programs. We can kind of vary the workout routines a bit without ever getting to the point where you're avoiding a specific body region.  You don’t have to exercise that region, leg day, chest, whatever you're doing, cardio, you don’t have to completely do the same thing all the time to get similar results, you can change it up. And, that can help with growth of fitness, strength, whatever you're looking for to grow from. But, if you stay in a regular routine the opportunities to do without soreness become less because you're more accustomed to the work.

KATIE: That sounds like very sensible advice. What about these workout supplements, and recovery supplements that, you know, you see? They're like packed with, like, branch chain amino acids and stuff like that. I mean, do these recovery supplements prevent soreness.

DR. BRAUNREITER: That's a really hard question to answer ‘cause -- It’s a different world than medications. There's a lot of theory behind them in the lab and the biology classrooms and such that really make a lot of sense that these supplements could affect something for you. The problem is proving it in the real world is hard to do because there's a lot of variables that go into what creates soreness, what creates fitness in each person so you can't really extrapolate one person to the next with a supplement. It’s probably better to make sure you have adequate nutrition, adequate hydration, and that you're doing within your means what your exercise capacity is.

KATIE: Right.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Than it is to try to rely on a supplement.

KATIE: Yeah, you know it’s tough especially in today’s kind of exercise culture. Because, I do a lot of workout classes online and on my own time but, you know, you kind of get put into a class and your fitness level may not match what the class sort of is asking you to do. So that's where I found my big trap, is that, you know, I'll start -- I'll fire up Apple Fitness and I'll pick, you know, a ten-minute leg workout and then I'm like, “Whew.” Halfway in I'm like, “This is probably too much for me right now.” Any tips for kind of slowing down even when you're in the middle of that class environment and, you know, you might be overdoing it, you don't wanna get sore. Is it really just take a step back, or would you say, “Hey, just stop and go do something else. Go for a walk.” What would you say to that?

DR. BRAUNREITER: All those answers are really good. A famous personal trainer in the world, Tony Horton, who is a creator of P90X, I'll throw a shameless plug. I like him a lot. I actually met him personally once.

KATIE: Oh cool.

DR. BRAUNREITER: I did a workout with him, he's a really cool guy. But, he's famous for sayings, and one of his sayings is, “Do your best and forget the rest.”

KATIE: I like that.

DR. BRAUNREITER: I learned that a long time ago from following his workouts. Before that I was the guy who would push through a workout regardless. And, if you get to a point where you can't finish your repetition because you're worried about your form failing, that's when injuries can occur, pushing through pain is never a good thing. You can always lower your intensity, modify the amount of weight you're doing if you're using weights, the depth of your movement if that's what it is, or slowing your pace down if you're doing something aerobic. Taking a break is never a bad thing. Let your body recover. You don’t have to even recover all the way down to a resting state, and then you can continue to work out of you feel okay but maybe you're at a lower intensity and you can finish your workout. You're still getting value out of it. Your muscles aren't saying, “Well you didn’t operate at this level of intensity so forget it I'm not gonna develop for you,” right?

KATIE: Yeah, I like that. I think I'm like you where I really do over do it. Well, historically I have overdone it. I'm a very much a, “Oh if it wants me to do this I'mma do that. I have, as I've gotten older, learned, like, it’s not a good idea. To your point, I end up with knee pain for a couple weeks and then I can barely do my workouts and that's unfortunate. So, I like that advice, thank you. And, I like that mantra too. It’s also just good mentally to get through the workouts, I think. Another question about, sort of, preventing or relieving muscle soreness, what about salt baths and hot water? I love to just, like, soak in the tub. Is that helping my sore muscles, do we think?

DR. BRAUNREITER: On a scientific answer, I don’t know that I could say that that's…

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Necessarily, like, the thing you do. On a personal level if that works for you that's great.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Others will say, “I need to sit in an ice tub.” Let's look at, let's say, a professional athlete. So, after a 90-minute plus running up and down the field in Houston weather a lot of the guys sit in an ice tub. And, part of that’s they're sore from running around.

KATIE: Yeah.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Some of it’s they're just pretty much overheated so they're cooling core temperature down, okay.  So, there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with trying to do anything post-workout to help yourself along. Some -- One of the -- kind of the underappreciated things that people don’t necessarily talk about is post-workout nutrition.

KATIE: Hm, okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: So, you know, you do a really intensive session, even if it’s 30 minutes, you're sweating to evaporate body temperature because evaporation’s your most effective method of reducing -- even when it’s humid.

[Chuckling]

Right?

KATIE: A lot of the time here.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Right. Your body is trying to get rid of body temperature by putting water on the surface so that it can evaporate, that'll cool you down. But you lose that water and you're not measuring that necessarily. Like, the professional guys will pre and post-weigh their training sessions or their games to figure out how much water did I really lose so I know how to refuel for tomorrow.

KATIE: Mm-hmm.

DR. BRAUNREITER: But, we’re not doing that every day, necessarily and we don’t have to. We have to know that we’re losing water, even though just breathing. The humidity of the air we’re blowing out is also some unmeasured water loss. And you've made your muscles now empty of fuel.

KATIE: Hm, yeah.

DR. BRAUNREITER: So reloading with good healthy carbohydrate, protein type snack after workout and getting adequate hydration during and after a workout can help with a lot of the performance issues people have with training.

KATIE: Okay, gotcha. You talked about the ice baths, what about those kind of like, cryotherapy, like, pants you can buy and wear now that, like, cool your -- cool your -- Is that what they're doing? I see -- Every now and then I’ll see like -- Especially people who run marathons. Some of my friends will put on their Instagram stories after a training run they're in the, like, the pants. And, I've seen athletes do it. I mean, is that another kind of -- It’s probably, you know, if it works for you good but we don’t know?

DR. BRAUNREITER: Yeah. It’s probably more of that.

KATIE: Okay. Another question, stretching. Is stretching helpful in relieving or preventing sore muscles?

DR. BRAUNREITER: Yes.

KATIE: Oh, okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Well, I mean, but -- To say, I mean, on a common sense level, yes.

KATIE: Okay

DR. BRAUNREITER: Because, you know, your  body -- You are all -- Everyone’s a unique individual and they inherit whatever they inherit from their family genetics, right? So your flexibility at it’s maximum is whatever your DNA was given to you so you're not gonna become Gumby if your family has no Gumbys in it.

[Laughter]

Right? But you can improve your flexibility to its maximum capacity by working with stretching.

KATIE: Mm-hmm.

DR. BRAUNREITER: it does help. I don’t know if stretching is the thing that you would say would alleviate the soreness you get from the workout that you just did that you hadn’t done in a while, the DOMS thing.

KATIE: Mm-hmm.

DR. BRAUNREITER: But it certainly might help you with your performance because you're now utilizing your body’s capacity to its maximum abilities. So you're not misloading muscle to get sore, so there's probably value in that. I don’t know that it’s been studied to say for sure this is going to be the magic trick, but it certainly is a good component of a good, healthy workout routine and limit that.

KATIE: That's good to hear. What about taking pain relievers for muscle soreness? Is that something you recommend, or is it such a dull soreness we kinda just need to deal with it?

DR. BRAUNREITER: I think that gets back to that same individual thing.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: If you're sore enough to pop an Advil that's fine.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: You know, it’s not a big deal. I mean, when I worry the most would be people who are doing that on a frequent basis, or doing it in a situation where they have maybe lost too much water, they're overheated and dehydrated, and high doses of anti-inflammatory type medicines like ibuprofen can affect your system in a negative way in an extreme situation.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Not the general situation but --

KATIE: But good to know, yeah.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Yeah, so be -- It’s okay to do that because, really, I think the more you're able to move, the more you're gonna be able to attain and maintain fitness which can then limit the development of these DOMS situations that come up.

KATIE: Gotcha. I think that just about wraps up the questions I had about muscle soreness, but I wanted to ask you, before we close out here, I mean, you work around athletes, you see patients, what are some of the -- Are there any other, sort of, weird or crazy claims or myths you've heard about muscle soreness that you wanna correct while we’re on air?

DR. BRAUNREITER: Well, I think the biggest one was the pickle juice thing, I mean, that -- And that's really for cramping. And, in the sports world like in the football games…

KATIE: Yeah.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Especially in the high school, or at the collegiate level. It’s just -- Does it really work? The amount of electrolytes that are in sports drinks are not necessarily the concentration or the degree that they are in your -- a human body.

KATIE: Mm-hmm.

DR. BRAUNREITER: For example, sodium. ‘Cause that's -- Pickle -- The whole pickle juice thing is about sodium.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: If you drank a fluid containing the amount of concentration of sodium your body has you would probably vomit it out.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Because it’s extremely concentrated if you -- I'm not gonna tell you how to mix it ‘cause…

KATIE: Yeah.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Whatever, but, it’s not really necessarily gonna give you as much as you think. So, the electrolyte drinks have some electrolytes in them…

KATIE: Mm-hmm.

DR. BRAUNREITER: But they don’t have the degree that you need. So, if you drink a gallon of electrolyte fluid, let’s say, or a quart, and you over did it, you're going to dilute your own internal electrolyte levels which can be dangerous.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: It’s more dangerous to drink a non-electrolyte fluid like water to that degree.

KATIE: Right.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Because you're have -- You're putting no electrolytes in against your -- So it’s like adding water to Kool-Aid.

KATIE: Right, especially in Houston in the summer time.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Right.

KATIE: When you, just like, think you need water, water, water, and you've been sweating out probably all your electrolytes and then you just dilute 'em even more, it sounds like, from what you're saying.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Well, you'll dilute them less with an electrolyte fluid drink but you're still gonna dilute them out if you overdo it.

KATIE: Yeah.

DR. BRAUNREITER: So it’s a matter of being smart about pacing yourself.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: And, watching -- Don’t use your thirst because thirst is a very delayed indicator of how dehydrated you are. Stay ahead of the game.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: You know, and always watch the color of your urine. Because, you don’t want it to be a dark yellow, or even getting closer to the brown side. That’s bad.

KATIE: Yeah.

DR. BRAUNREITER: And if you're kind of in the light to pale yellow that you could probably read something in print behind the glass of it then you're probably in the right hydration status.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Even being completely clear like water is not necessarily good because that means you're probably overhydrating some.

KATIE: Gotcha.

DR. BRAUNREITER: And that's potentially a risk if you're actively exercising and you're seeing that.

KATIE: Yeah, okay. Anything else that you'd wanna remind listeners before we close out here about muscle soreness, and what we can do to kind of limit it as we keep staying active?

DR. BRAUNREITER: I guess I wanna address maybe some of the middle to older adults who are getting more involved in things like pickle ball and such, you know. They -- Injuries happen and they're gonna happen, it’s been since the beginning of time we've seen 'em that's why I do what I do, is to take care of people who either wanna prevent or get -- or if they get hurt it’s part of what I do. I like to promote that you don’t have to always do the same exercise constantly.

KATIE: Okay.

DR. BRAUNREITER: If you change things up from time to time you actually probably get more value out of it and you can still, like, I men -- I think I said earlier if you address the same area of your body with different exercises you're still gonna get growth. But the other part of that growth is mental. If you're not engaged in what you're doing then it becomes very boring. Like, you know, my favorite scenario --

KATIE: Yeah.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Yeah, my favorite scenario is, you know, I flip on the TV or I'm at the gym and there's a TV screen on and I'm gonna do my workout to whatever’s on the screen. What are paying attention to?

KATIE: Definitely not --

DR. BRAUNREITER: Are you paying attention to your effort?

KATIE: Yeah, definitely not.

DR. BRAUNREITER: No. You're seeing what's on the news or whatever that is is, whatever you're watching. So your effort level doesn’t necessarily match the intensity that you want. And then, people who are looking to gain fitness may get frustrated ‘cause I'm at the gym every day but I'm really struggling with my goals. While if you would pay more attention to yourself then maybe that's -- maybe you'd gain. I would take that differently than, like, putting music on in -- Because that might be different ‘cause you're not necessarily sitting there and focusing on the music, it’s just...

KATIE: Right.

DR. BRAUNREITER: It has a way of helping motivate you. But, paying attention to something else that really requires a lot of mental effort like watching a movie or reading a book or whatever that's different.

KATIE: Yeah.

DR. BRAUNREITER: But varying up your exercise routines and making sure that you're getting balance in what you're doing with -- Some days you might do strength exercise, another day you might focus on something aerobic, another day you might focus on flexibility. And, just keeping it different keeps you engaged so that way you have to pay attention.

KATIE: Yeah, I -- I can definitely vouch for that. I've had to start doing that as I also have gotten older. I used to just pop on the elliptical and go as high intensity as I could for 20 minutes, you know, four to five times a week. Cannot do that anymore, my body doesn't like it, so now I have to mix it up and I’ve been really enjoying it, so can vouch for that for sure. Alright, well, thank you for being on the show with us today. This has been super helpful and I'm excited to try some of these things so I can maybe not be as sore in the future.

DR. BRAUNREITER: Well, thank you for having me, I enjoyed this.

KATIE: Yeah, awesome. Thanks.

[Sound effect plays to signal end of the interview]

KATIE: Zach, after this conversation I have a question for you.

ZACH: Okay.

KATIE: How often do you mix up your workout routine? Because, I have realized that's probably some of where I was going wrong for a long time.

ZACH: Yeah, so I -- It’s a never ending battle with me and exercise, right? So, I've, you know, I've joined gyms and done classes sometimes and then just tried to do my own thing sometimes and I'm just on this never ending journey about how to exercise and workout. And, since you mention it, yes. When I have been a part of classes they always mix it up and now I understand why.

KATIE: That is the really big -- So, that's funny that you -- that's how you framed it because that's also what I've -- I have started for the first time in a very long time doing classes. I'm an introvert, don’t like workout classes out in public, but now there's all these apps where they, you know, it’s essentially a class. And, I have found myself to be getting less sore. I think ‘cause I'm mixing up my workouts more and it’s not like anything’s getting over done. Like I said, I used to just, like, hop on the elliptical and do the same thing literally every day and I would go do something else. Like, for instance, I moved my sister this weekend. I would've been sore after all this moving but I wasn’t this time ‘cause I'm just, like, I think, in better shape ‘cause I mix up my routine, so I'm getting sore less. So I accidentally, I think, did that right.

ZACH: And, sometimes that's counterintuitive right because you wanna create a habit for yourself so you say, “I'm gonna do the same thing every day.” And, I've experienced that too, and then -- But then you kinda get on cruise control.

KATIE: Yeah. And, he talked about that too. When you're not really thinking about your workout is also when you're probably not putting in the right amount of effort or --

ZACH: You do the wrong form and you can hurt yourself.

KATIE: Yeah, exactly. And then, that's in -- To that point then you might actually be in pain not sore. 

ZACH: Yeah.

KATIE: If you hurt yourself, so. I'm glad we went over those signs too. He told us this really good mantra, “Do your best and forget the rest.”

ZACH: Yes, I love that.

KATIE: I do too.

ZACH: Print that out, put it on a poster board.

KATIE: Yeah. I, for a long time, have been a person who, like, if this thing says I gotta do 12 reps at this weight, like, I'm gonna do it. And, like, what is thing telling me? Like --

[Laughter]

They're not, like -- They're not my personal trainer, they're not a doctor, I'm just, like -- But I'm gonna do it. And I -- So I really like that mantra.

ZACH: Well, because when you're, like, in a class, for example.

KATIE: Yeah.

ZACH: Like, you feel like you're kinda letting the class and yourself down.

KATIE: Or it’s kind of embarrassing.

ZACH: Right! But there were times where I was like, “I cannot do one more leg lift over here, I'm gonna stop at 10 when it’s supposed to be 12. And, part of me was like -- I felt -- I felt shame. I get --

[Laughter]

KATIE: Well, good for you though, for knowing, like, what you're capable of --

ZACH: Well I just thought my leg was gonna fall off if I did two more, so, but --

KATIE: Some people wouldn’t listen for those signs, so good for you. I'm glad that he mentioned that the cure for soreness is not to just, like, be inactive.

[Laughter]

I think that's something I've done a lot of.

ZACH: It’s counterintuitive, right? You think, “Oh, let me just sit here and it will heal itself.”

KATIE: Or you're like, “Oh, I can't work out today because I'm just so sore.”

ZACH: Right.

KATIE: So, like, oof, hall pass. Like, no, you should probably at least go for a walk or something.

ZACH: Yeah, and, you know, when you're in a good groove with workout you're sore but you also feel loose and there's a good, like, zone there, right? ‘Cause soreness is -- Again, as you guys talked about, soreness doesn't necessarily mean bad.

KATIE: Right.

ZACH: And I think that might be a misconception people have.

KATIE: Yeah, no, I agree. And, biggest mystery that we are left with is that we still don’t really know what causes it, but -- So, we didn’t quite get that one answered, other than the answer is we don’t know. But, I think we got a lot our questions about muscle soreness answered today so I'm very happy. I talked to Doctor Braunreiter a couple weeks ago and I've already been employing some of the stuff, and, like I said, I moved my sister this weekend, was not sore whatsoever even though I was, like, lifting heavy boxes, and weird angles. So the tips are working out for me.

ZACH: Awesome. Well that's gonna do it for this episode of On Health with Houston Methodist. Be sure to share a like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We drop episodes Tuesday mornings, so until next time stay tuned and stay healthy.