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ZACH MOORE: Welcome to On Health with Houston Methodist. I'm Zach Moore. I'm a photographer and editor here, and I'm also a longtime podcaster.

KIM RIVERA HUSTON-WEBER: I'm Kim Rivera Huston Weber, and I'm a copywriter here at Houston Methodist.

ZACH: And Kim, are you a fan of charcuterie boards?

KIM: Yes, I would say I am.

ZACH: You're a charcuterist. Is that a word?

KIM: No, I don't think it's a word.

ZACH: Oh, it is now. [Laughing]

KIM: It's not something that I do very often, because it does feel special.

ZACH: Right? I mean, that's been my life experience with it. It's parties, events, you know. Oh, look at this feast, this mini feast that's laid out for you. What's your favorite part of the board? Your favorite food on it, I should say.

KIM: You know, I would have to say that for me, cheese is usually the star of a charcuterie board.

ZACH: Yeah. And those little cheese cubes, I'm like, "Oh yeah."

KIM: Yeah.

ZACH: I do like vegetables too. I love some carrots, I love some tomatoes.

KIM: Mm-hmm.

ZACH: So I feel like, you know, not that I'm counting in my head to make sure I get the right ratio. I mean, maybe we should. We'll talk about that today. It is, you know, ideally a well-balanced, you know, spread there.

KIM: Yeah. You know, I think that there's probably something for everyone, depending on the board, unless it's maybe like, you know, the kind of sad ones that you might get that it's just like, it's all celery and then there's like the big tub of ranch in the center. Do you know what I'm talking about?

ZACH: I think we all know what you're talking about.

KIM: Yeah. Just like, "Oh, it's somebody's birthday and they brought in the sad pre-made..."

ZACH: "I stopped by the grocery store and brought this in."

KIM: Yeah.

ZACH: It's the thought that counts though.

KIM: It is the thought that counts. I shouldn't discount it. But today we're really going to dive into what makes something celebratory and what might make something more a bit of a girl dinner.

ZACH: You mentioned girl dinner.

KIM: Yeah.

ZACH: This is a term that I've learned over the years. I think girl dinner can be for anyone.

KIM: Yes.

ZACH: I mean, I've had girl dinners where it's like, "Oh, well, I'll have some blue corn tortilla chips and some salsa." And I'm like, "Yeah, that's..." I didn't know the term at the time.

KIM: Yeah.

ZACH: But you know, I used to eat that a lot. So you've done some girl dinner charcuterie boards at least.

KIM: Oh yeah, definitely. You know, I have the random crackers in the pantry. I've got exactly four grapes. I have maybe some leftover cheese.

ZACH: Yeah.

KIM: Let's make it work. I've definitely done that kind of charcuterie board.

ZACH: Not so much the presentation front but the --

KIM: No.

ZACH: You know, you're not looking to impress a big group of people. That's just a personal charcuterie board for yourself, which is fine.

KIM: Yeah.

ZACH: Well, as you might have guessed, we're talking charcuterie boards today. And who did we talk to, Kim?

KIM: Yes, we talked to Kristen Wright. She's a registered dietitian here at Houston Methodist. I'm a big fan of girl dinner. Like, who isn't, right? But I think that there's no better girl dinner than a charcuterie board.

KRISTEN WRIGHT: Absolutely.

KIM: And you know, I wanna get into how we can make our charcuterie boards healthy and nutritious, but I'm really just gonna start with a softball question. What do you consider a charcuterie board to be?

KRISTEN: So my definition of a charcuterie board is very different than what an actual charcuterie board is because I've made so many tweaks to it to make it a little bit more nutrient-dense. But a charcuterie within itself is usually just meats, cheeses, with some breads or crackers, and then any type of nuts, sometimes olives, pickles, some of those little extra pieces in there. And then usually you can throw in some other things too, some fruits maybe, or jams, honey, things like that. But not all the time are those things really the best for us to eat every single day or in that sort of density that we usually will have it for a board. The cool thing about charcuterie boards, though, is most of the time that we're making them or eating them, we're usually socializing too as well, so it allows for a little bit more moderation with some of those things versus an actual girl dinner that might be structured very similarly, but maybe just a little bit different.

KIM: Yeah.

KRISTEN: Just a tad bit different, maybe a little bit different proteins, maybe adding a little bit more veggie, all of those things, too.

KIM: So you kind of mentioned that your definition kind of skews a little bit different, so that kind of leads into my next question about when we're thinking about the traditional charcuterie board, let's say, what about some of those ingredients might not be the best choices for us? Like, what are the common issues that you've found?

KRISTEN: The biggest thing is gonna be those processed meats. So unfortunately, all of those really, really yummy meats, including our salamis and all of those fun Italian-style meats that I can never pronounce the names of, but they're so good, they tend to be very full of sodium. So sodium is a huge component in the processing of those meats and just kind of keeping them more stable. So in that sort of processing, they're putting a ton in there, and sometimes those meats can have 6, 7, 800 milligrams of sodium per serving, and those are kind of the lower. And some of them -- There are some that are a little bit higher, so it really just varies depending on the meat. But yes, we do have to be really mindful with that just because we get so much sodium in our American-style diet. Unfortunately, it is a cheap way to process foods, and we find it quite a lot in keeping things shelf-stable, and the American Heart Association only recommends 2,300 milligrams of sodium a day. So if we are doing an 800 milligram of sodium, let's say, processed meat, and we're eating a little bit more than that serving size, we're probably getting 1,000, a little bit more than that, potentially just from that one item, because let's be honest, nobody is measuring out four ounces of their charcuterie meat at a party to figure out how much sodium they're actually getting. And if you have hypertension, that number decreases, so they actually recommend no more than 1,500 milligrams, which is very, very low compared to what we see normally in a day-to-day. So that sodium can get you really, really quickly, and there are a lot of higher-sodium deli meats. You can get some lower-sodium options, but even those can have up to 500 milligrams of sodium per serving.

KIM: Yeah, so it sounds like our deli meats, the prosciutto, like all of those delicious -

KRISTEN: They're so good, though.

KIM: I know, they're so good. And kind of to that point, is fat an issue as well?

KRISTEN: Fat can also be an issue, too, specifically saturated fats. So a lot of people will focus more so on cholesterol when we're looking at things for heart health, but actually we should be looking at the saturated fat content. So saturated fat is gonna be found in most animal goods. It's also gonna be found in things like your palm oils or coconut oil. So that was popular a few years back, too, as well, and that tends to be fairly high in saturated fat. So that is something we do have to be really careful on, and some of those more fattier meats, your pork for sure, tend to have a little bit more of that saturated fat, too. So we do have to be just a little bit careful. The American Heart Association actually recommends between 5% to 6% of your daily caloric intake be coming from saturated fat. So it's a very low number, and we get it from all the other animal foods that we're eating within the day. So it's just something we have to be really careful about. But I will say this, you know, with these fun deli meats and things that we're having on the board, if we're doing it in a moderate state, maybe as a snack plate. Listen, I made a board for my grandma over the weekend. She had a party, and she asked me to make a board, and I got salami because that's what goes on a board, and that's okay. We can make things pretty, but barely anybody ate anything, and that's typically what happens in a lot of these social situations is you'll eat one or two pieces, but you won't be sitting there and eating a full-fledged meal of these deli meats.

KIM: No, that makes total sense. And, you know, you're leading into my next question, which is when we're thinking about the boards, it sounds like you probably made something that was pretty big for your grandma's event.

KRISTEN: I have so much food left over I'm still trying to eat.

KIM: Oh, no. [Laughing]

KRISTEN: Yes.

KIM: So for, kind of, like, these bigger boards or things where we might be going to celebrations versus what we might make for ourselves at home, we're just gonna watch our favorite TV show and have our snack. How should we be thinking about it if we are going to be treating a board as a snack versus a meal?

KRISTEN: I think if we're treating a board more so as a meal, we're going to have to add in more nutrient density. So just like you would be building a healthy plate for, say, a regular dinner, you're still going to be doing that, maybe just more in a snack form. I'm all about a snack dinner. It's easy sometimes, especially when you're busy, you're getting home really late. And so if we can just make sure we're having all of the components that we need. We need veggies. We need specifically non-starchy veggies. So making sure we're still filling up on those. We also need things like our proteins. We also need some healthy fats in there. And then we do need some carbohydrates. And so really just making sure you're hitting all of the components, even if it's in a snack portion, really super random, totally fine. As long as we hit the components, that's what's important about building more so a meal versus a snack. Snacks can kind of be all over the board and all over the place. And usually we still hit all of those components, but it's usually just in a smaller portion.

KIM: So now I'd love to get into what your ideal board looks like. And so I'm just going to run through different types of ingredients.

KRISTEN: I love it.

KIM: And how we might wanna consider these on our boards. So we've kind of talked about the kind of heavy hitter -- I don't wanna say bad because they're not bad.

KRISTEN: They're just really, really fun and very salty.

KIM: Yeah, but just very salty and very delicious. But when we're thinking about meats or maybe even plant-based options that we might wanna have on our boards for proteins, what should we be thinking about?

KRISTEN: So it's going to kind of depend on what you're doing. If you're building a board more so for a party, you're probably not going to stick a piece of chicken on that board. Just a little bit strange. So you probably will lean more towards those deli meats that we kind of already talked about. But if you're building something at home for, let's say, a girl or a guy style dinner, that's more of a snack plate. I always, my go-to is chicken. So if you can do any type of chicken, you're going to be getting a leaner based option, especially if you're using a chicken breast. One of the kind of quick and easy things that you can even do is grabbing one of the rotisserie chickens. Those are also a little bit higher in sodium, so we still have to be careful with those. But it is a little bit more of an easier convenience option. They have them now where they're already pre-shredded and you can get the white meat specifically. That's a really good option of a way to just take that chicken. I love chicken salad, any type of salad, pasta salad, egg salad, tuna salad, whatever type of salad.

KIM: Very Midwestern sounding.

KRISTEN: Yes, exactly, exactly. Any type of salad, we can really kind of amp it up a little bit and give it a little bit more of those good nutrients too. So I think it really just varies, but chicken is always a good go-to and tuna is, too. That comes in a packet or a can and that's something that's super easy that you can just kind of grab and make into something really, really quickly.

KIM: You know, to that point, I am a bit of a tinned fish enthusiast.

KRISTEN: Yeah.

KIM: What would you say about salmon and chili crisp or olive oil? What do you think about tinned fish options?

KRISTEN: Yeah, absolutely. I think tinned fish is a good convenience sort of item. The only thing that we have to be really mindful of, anything that comes in a can, is going to be if they're preserving it with a ton of sodium. So it's always going to come back to the salt because it's the cheapest and easiest way to make things shelf stable. And a lot of times they can pump it into those things. But salmon has really, really great health benefits. It's got quite a bit of omega-3s in there, which are those good healthy fats that are going to help our good cholesterol. And so even if you wanted to incorporate some of those into your day-to-day, I think that's a fabulous option.

KIM: I know lots of people love the deli meats and everything. But to me, if there was a star, the star is going to be cheese.

KRISTEN: Oh, 100%. I agree. I agree 100%.

KIM: And so when we're thinking about cheese on our board, what should we be considering with that?

KRISTEN: So with cheeses, it can be a little bit complex because there's so many different styles and types of cheeses out there. And there's a lot of cheeses that might not really get every taste preference, is the easiest way to put it. People might not enjoy some of the, I don't wanna say healthier style cheeses, but maybe some of the ones that have a little bit less of that fat content in there. Typically when you're looking at those cheeses, your best bet is looking at your saturated fat. We're trying to keep that number down as low as possible. So if we can keep that saturated fat 3 to 1 grams, the lower the better, because that means you can kind of consume a little bit more of that. Some good go-to's are things like your feta. Goat cheese is a really great one, and it's got a lot of actually gut benefit as well. I love goat cheese. I could put goat cheese on literally everything, and I do put it on everything. So goat cheese is a great one. Any type of other low-fat cheese option. Cottage cheese is a great one that people are adding to lots of dips and sauces now. So that has become a little bit more of a fad with all of that protein kind of coming out and so adding in something like a cottage cheese to a dip and blending it up, you could get a little bit of benefit there too as well. So Swiss is also a really great one. So that one typically is gonna be a little bit lower as well.

KIM: The cottage cheese craze is wild, and I'm definitely going to ask about dips.

KRISTEN: Yes. [Laughing] Cottage cheese is definitely becoming a thing. And it's funny because I'm a texture person, and so I thought I would try it, but I wanted to do it in like a mac and cheese so that it was a little bit better. And it was actually pretty good. I was impressed because, yeah, the texture is not my favorite.

KIM: Yeah, I think the texture can be really off-putting. So I don't think you'd wanna actually put it physically on a board, but I think it makes sense more as a dip situation.

KRISTEN: Yeah.

KIM: Let's just get to the dip side of it. Because we're definit -- I know we're going to talk about fruits and veggies, but I think if you're gonna have veggies, I think you have to have dip. So when we're thinking about dips, what should we keep in mind?

KRISTEN: Honestly, I love a dip. I love a sauce. Anything that you can kind of put on some other type of food to enhance it, it's always okay. And I get this actually quite a lot where people are, they'll come to me and be like, "I can't eat this vegetable unless it's got ranch on it." Okay, then put the ranch on it because you're at least getting the benefit from the veggie versus if you weren't to eat it at all because you just don't wanna eat it without ranch. So I think definitely having that sort of space to allow for some of those sauces is okay. But again, we do have to be careful and mindful because some of those sauces can be higher in fat. They can have added sugars kind of thrown in there that we don't necessarily think about. And so that's also one of those things where it's like sometimes you may go and do a full fledged normal high fat ranch and other days you might wanna look for an alternative option. So Greek yogurt is actually another one that is very popular right now, but it is really amazing to make a ranch dip or honestly any type of dip. You can put whatever in there and it tastes just like your regular ranch. It's a little bit more on the sourish side, but your body gets used to it. Your taste buds get used to it and you're getting a little bit of extra of that protein benefit, so. And you can use that Greek yogurt in things like a French onion dip or spinach artichoke dips. You can kind of enhance that protein just a little bit more and give you a little bit of a benefit. I actually will buy a little, one of those little small cups of the Fage yogurt and I will put just a little bit of the ranch packet in it and keep it in my fridge for the week. And that way if I am going to have an evening where I want to, you know, have some raw veggies, then I'll be able to pull it out and do that because veggies do taste better with ranch.

KIM: Yeah, I think that's a really great idea of getting the smaller portions and then you kind of already have a pre-portioned dip that you can make whatever flavor you potentially may want.

KRISTEN: There's so many different little packets out there. Now, obviously when you're getting a pre-made style packet for any of those things, we do still have to be careful with salt. I'm going to be like the salt police at this point, but we do just have to be a little bit more mindful that we're going to be getting it from there. And with salt, the biggest thing is just watching the rest of your day's worth of salt. So if you're wanting to do that, just be a little bit more mindful about some of the other things.

KIM: Yeah, that makes total sense. And I do have a side question about how do you feel about dips that are like, I'm thinking hummus or maybe baba ghanoush, which is I think just eggplant.

KRISTEN: Yeah, yeah. I love a hummus. Hummus is one of my favorite things. Actually, Leah's hummus is the best hummus and I will be on camera quoting that right now. So that's perfect. Her hummus is truly the best. And -- but hummus in general is a really good additive. Now, it's a little bit lower in protein, but you're still getting quite a bit of benefit from those beans and so, and or the chickpeas. So, I love a hummus dip. And if you can make your own, great. But if not, some of the store bought kinds are just going to be just as good.

KIM: Now we've got our dip on our board. When we're thinking about veggies and fruits that we wanna put on our board, are there some combinations that work better than others with flavors or textures? What should we just be thinking about when we're putting our veggies on our board?

KRISTEN: I think it's all really dependent on what you actually like. So me, for example, I do not like celery. You will never see celery on my board.

KIM: It's a very divisive vegetable I found.

KRISTEN: It is. It Is. It's a little aggressive in my opinion, but I love peppers and I love carrots. So you will always find peppers and carrots on my board. I love radishes. You'll always find those too, because them being raw is a great option. Things like jicama I really enjoy, especially for a board because it's easy to, kind of, dip and there's a crunch factor there. So it's really just dependent on your own personal veggie preference. Same goes for fruits, whatever fruits you are really enjoying. You get so many different benefits from fruits and vegetables. All of the different colors of the rainbow have all sorts of different antioxidants and different phytonutrients in them. And so we eat with our eyes, too. And if we can make those boards a little bit more colorful, we are a little bit more tempted to eat and enjoy those things as well. So, lots of color. Wherever we can throw in color, it's always going to be good. And a lot of times what I noticed specifically with veggies is most people lean towards green and they miss out on all of the other colors. And so really being intentional about picking some of those other colors could be really helpful too, just to get that variety.

KIM: Yeah, you know, I hadn't actually thought about it in that way when -- I think that's like the whole appeal of charcuterie boards, right? Especially when you're looking online and you see the different boards as you're scrolling and you're just like, "How did they make that?" Or, "How did they make the little roses?"

KRISTEN: Oh yeah, I had a rose on my board this weekend. I love the little roses. They're so fun to make. Yeah, and I think that is the beauty of it. You know, I'm a millennial kid. I grew up on Lunchables and that's exactly what I like to do as an adult. It's just an adult Lunchable, but we have to add a little bit more nutrients to it now. It's not just the fun little pizzas that come in the package. [Laughter]

KIM: Makes sense. Well, since you brought it up, I would love to know what you think a -- Just describe what you would put in your -- because this is another type of video that I keep getting served is like people making the little Lunchable packs.

KRISTEN: Oh yeah, like a little bento box.

KIM: Yeah, like the little bento boxes. What would you put in yours?

KRISTEN: Okay, well, I can tell you because I just had that for lunch today. So, I did like a little small salad where I will add matchstick carrots to it. I add radishes to it. I usually use like a spring mix, maybe throw in some arugula or romaine. I like to get a wide variety of different lettuces in there too. And then I'll throw a little bit of goat cheese because we have to have goat cheese every single time. I also did a little chicken salad board. So just chicken salad, just a few little crackers to go with that. And then I had some nuts on the side. So I had every single little component, but just more in a little snack, snack-based lunch. They're easy too.

KIM: Yeah.

KRISTEN: Like it takes about 10 minutes to put together.

KIM: Yeah. Now, I think that's one of the things about building these boards. There's definitely a convenience factor with it, right?

KRISTEN: Yeah. And we don't have to overthink them, you know, we can get really creative, we can add lots of fun stuff to it. And it doesn't have to be this extravagant thing every single time. I can't tell you how many times I've had girl dinner at night, and it's on a paper plate, and it doesn't look very great, but it's really delicious. And it gives me all of the things that I need.

KIM: When we're thinking about the carbs that we might want on our board, what should we consider putting on our boards in that way?

KRISTEN: I love carbs. Personally, carbs are the best. So again, this is totally going to be personal preference. There are going to be some days where you go straight baguette, garlic toast whole situation and that is totally fine. And there may be other days where you're wanting to incorporate a little bit more complexity. So thinking about carbohydrates that have a little bit more fiber, so your whole grains, any type of whole grain cracker or your whole grain pita chip, anything that has a little bit more of that fiber can also be really helpful too. But sometimes you just need garlic bread, and that's okay.

KIM: Yeah.

KRISTEN: It's absolutely okay.

KIM: Yeah. You had mentioned goat cheese. I am a huge proponent of goat cheese as well, but I find that I have to have goat cheese with just a little bit of honey.

KRISTEN: Yeah.

KIM: So I would love to hear your thoughts on when we're thinking about adding sweetness or any kind of sweeteners to our board, what should we keep in mind?

KRISTEN: I love this question because I think honey in itself has a lot of great benefits, especially if you're getting more so a local based honey. So it can actually help with allergens, which is really fun. So depending on where you're getting it in that area. So if you struggle with allergies, adding in a little honey can actually be super beneficial. But other than that, it is sweetening some of your boards up a little bit and it's a little bit of fun and we love fun. So honey is a great option, even if you're doing some type of fig or like figs or maybe a jam or something along those lines. Again, the biggest things to just be mindful of is that a lot of them will have added sugars in there. And so we just have to be a little bit careful and mindful, but they're totally okay to be having on your board. Another kind of component that you could add potentially to get a little bit of sweetness is something like a dark chocolate covered nut. So you'll get a little bit of the protein and the fat benefit from that, but then still get a little bit more of that sort of benefit from the dark chocolate too. And it's going to help to kind of cut a little bit more of that sweetness craving.

KIM: Yeah. And so this prompts another question. So, we've talked a lot about savory boards. I know that there is such a thing as the sweet ones.

KRISTEN: The sweet ones.

KIM: I'm less familiar with the sweet ones because I have more of a, I'm more of a savory snacker than I am a sweet -- than I gravitate towards sweets. So with those sweet boards, what should folks think about when they're trying to create one or is it a good option?

KRISTEN: I mean, yes, obviously a lot of the sweet boards that we think about are going to be more fun-based foods, which is totally fine to have. Again, especially if we're in more of a party-based setting, you're probably gonna eat a little bit less. Or if it's something that you wanna enjoy at night, probably wouldn't build a whole board around it, but you know, you could if you wanted to, I guess. I wouldn't recommend it. But yeah, I think those components definitely have a place in our diet. So when we have these events or times of celebration, we want to enjoy some of those things and you can get really creative with those sweet boards. Also, if you're making some of the stuff at home, you can make some alternatives. You can use dates as a sweetener. You can use things like a monkfruit or a stevia if you wanted to go that type of route where it's already kind of pre-done for you. So you can find those different recipes all over the place now. There's tons of recipes out there using some of these alternative methods that are going to cut a little bit of that added sugar component down, but they're still going to be really tasty and delicious. There's so many options out there. Even the, it's not really a board appropriate thing, but like the viral cheesecake.

KIM: Hmm.

KRISTEN: I don't know if you've seen that, but it's Greek yogurt and then you just put like whatever cookies or things that you want in there. That is a great way to get a little bit of that sweetness, but then also still have the benefit from the Greek yogurt. And there's so many different boards out there now. People are having board parties where they're bringing a bunch of different boards of things to those places. So, I mean, sweet boards are definitely a thing for sure, but maybe just a sweet treat at the end of dinner, not necessarily a full board.

KIM: Yeah, no, that makes total sense. And you touched on it earlier about maybe having gherkins or other kind of pickles, really. But when we're thinking about any kind of condiments, because we talked about the sweeteners, but if we're thinking about condiments, like does mustard belong on a board? Like what kind of things could go on it?

KRISTEN: Yeah, totally. I think if you enjoy mustard, that can absolutely go on the board. There's a ton of different types of mustards out there. So, if you wanted to add any of those things, you absolutely could. I also think that pickles and olives also have their place on the board if they would like to join the board. But again, we do have to just be a little bit more careful and mindful because during the pickling process, we use a bunch of sodium. Because everything that tastes really good probably has a lot of sodium in it. So, that is just something to be a little bit careful about. But olives and pickles both have their own benefits because they are still going to be coming in a vegetable-based form. So, you are still getting vitamins, minerals, and different antioxidants and phytonutrients from those things as well. So, even though they might be a little salty, they definitely have their place. And I think too, again, if we're having a snack board, you're probably not eating a whole entire jar of pickles...

KIM: Yeah.

KRISTEN: In that process.

KIM: And along those lines, they're usually encased in olive oil, the roasted red peppers, those kinds of things, like pepperoncinis.

KRISTEN: Yes.

KIM: Do we need to keep anything in mind with those kinds of sides?

KRISTEN: Not necessarily. Olive oil is a very healthy oil. Obviously, we can overdo fats pretty easily. But you're taking it out of the jar. There's only so much that that veggie can actually absorb in some of those. So, I wouldn't worry about that too much. There might be a little bit in there, but I don't think it's anything to really make a huge health risk by any means. And definitely not if it's an olive oil, because you're going to get some really good heart health benefits from that. That's going to be a good oil.

KIM: When I think of having a charcuterie board, when I think about what I'm drinking with it, it's usually a glass of red wine, if I'm being honest with myself.

KRISTEN: Totally delicious.

KIM: I think it's fair to say that a lot of people might agree with that.

KRISTEN: Yeah.

KIM: So, when we're thinking about it, when we're choosing beverages to go with our boards, what do we need to keep in mind?

KRISTEN: Yeah. So, this is a great question because cheese does go with wine and wine goes with cheese. They're a great pairing. And so, yes, we can absolutely enjoy that glass of wine. But I think it's more so the portion size that gets us in trouble of that wine. Because when was the last time you measured out your wine? [Laughing] You just kind of pour it, right? It just doesn't happen like that. And so, a serving size of wine is actually four ounces. It's really not a whole lot. And if we're doing a little bit more than that, especially for women, that is going to be over what we're technically supposed to be having within that day, which would be one drink or that four ounces. For men, it's about two. So, you would get up to eight ounces, a little bit more of that wine. But for the most part, it's really portion size. Because if we're overdoing that, then we're getting a little bit more calorically from that wine. We still get a little bit of the antioxidant benefit, but we also know that alcohol is just not super great for our bodies either. So, definitely trying to find that moderation. One good sort of rule of thumb is to make sure you're not doing it every single day and having multiple glasses of wine. That might be a little bit more of a problem. But I would say, you know, if you're going to go out and have a board or build a board at home and have that sort of enjoyment, absolutely. Red wine is a really great option for that.

KIM: Yeah. And then when we're thinking about other beverages, if we're thinking about no or low alcohol beverages, what would be some good choices?

KRISTEN: I mean, I love a mocktail. Mocktails are really fun. And you can make mocktails with lots of different things now. There's lots of different options out there. The big thing to keep in mind with a lot of mocktails, especially the ones that use juices, we have to be super careful for because those are going to have a little bit more of those added sugars. We're going to lose a little bit of that benefit from fiber that you would normally have just from regular fruit. So we do have to still be careful when it comes to some of those juices. But you can make mocktails with sparkling water. And that is a really fun way to create something a little bit different, a little bit lighter, maybe still fruity. You can add fresh fruit to it and kind of let that fruit infuse. And that actually has benefit for fiber because your fruit does have those soluble fibers in there that are going to break down in the water. So as you're drinking the water, you're actually getting some of that fiber benefit as well. So a mocktail with some fresh fruit in there would be a really great option and something that you could do. [Laughing]

KIM: I mean, I feel like that's such a wonderful idea when you have berries in your fridge that are just slightly getting on the edge of, maybe you should pitch this. But I think, you know, drinking it, if it's a little soft, it's going to be fine. It's going to get softer in the soda water.

KRISTEN: And you do get some of that good benefit from it too, which is really, really helpful. Because, I mean, if we can drink our fiber, not the powdered form of fiber, like real fiber, then that is also really a great little addition that we can just add to our day. And that's something that you can use to just spruce up normal water as well. If you struggle with water during the day, adding in that fresh fruit can really benefit from that.

KIM: I would love to know if you could tell me what your ideal snack board would be.

KRISTEN: Oh, my gosh.

KIM: And what your ideal -- And I'm thinking about it in a nutritious way.

KRISTEN: Yes.

KIM: And then maybe if we're thinking of a celebratory board, what would that look like for you?

KRISTEN: Yeah. So, I think they both look very similar. The only big difference would probably be the protein. But for the most part, a lot of the components are going to be very much the same. So I am a big, big veggie girly. I just love veggies. I'm not much of a fruit person. So the fruit might be a little lacking on my board, but the veggies are definitely, absolutely there. I love the little mini peppers. And actually, one of the things that I did this past weekend was I stuffed the little mini peppers with some cheese. And then I just kind of had a little balsamic drizzle on the top and had that as one of the options. And it was so good. Plan on making it again.

KIM: For sure.

KRISTEN: Because it was delicious. So even something as simple or easy as that can just be a good addition. And I've been eating off of those this week too. So any veggie. I really love carrots, radishes, broccoli, cauliflower, peppers, like anything that's raw like that, I will pretty much tear up and it's probably going to be somewhere on my board. I also will make sure to have goat cheese, because that is definitely a big one, or some type of other spreadable style cheeses, because I think the soft cheeses just work really, really well. And then sometimes some hard cheeses too. So we'll have usually a little bit of a variety. And depending on if it's more of a celebratory board, I'm definitely getting deli meats, and I'm definitely making the roses out of it. But the thing with the roses, I make them so pretty, I don't wanna eat it. So it kind of deters me from eating it. It's really more just a visual thing for me. But those will definitely be on that board. If I'm doing more so a girl-based dinner, it's going to be chicken. That is my go-to. It's something that I buy in bulk every single week, and I prep early so that I have it for my meals to be able to use. So I always have chicken around. And that is just an easy grab and go option. So that would definitely be on my board. Also, you know, beans is one we don't necessarily always think about, but it could be a really great option to throw on there if you have a bean dip, because you're going to get a lot of fiber benefit from that and some protein, and it's more of a plant-based style option. Definitely will always have nuts, some type of nuts, probably almonds. I also really enjoy pecans, but almonds definitely will always find their way somewhere, some way on my board. And then that roasted garlic is always on the board. I think just have fun with it. You know, if you're going to create these boards, especially for a party or a celebration, don't stress too much, but maybe try to add some of these nutrient dense components into the boards. Add veggies. Technically, it becomes not a charcuterie board is what I learned the other day. Actually, my manager and I were talking about it, her husband's from France. And he said, "It's not a charcuterie board anymore when you add veggies." So, I thought that was interesting. There's another name for it, apparently over there. I can't remember for the life of me what she told me it was. But yeah, so but I will always add the veggie component to it because that is so important. And we just typically don't get enough veggies. So if there's a way to add nutrient density to anything that you're doing, that's always a good choice and a good option. But also find fun ways to incorporate it, like adding cheese to it, totally okay. Or adding in some dips and things like that, just so that you can eat it and actually enjoy it.

KIM: Well, thank you so much. This has been truly a wonderful conversation. I'm so hungry. I think I have to go make myself a board now.

KRISTEN: You should go make yourself a board. I hope you take a picture and send it to me.

KIM: Yes.

KRISTEN: I wanna see your board. [Laughing]

KIM: This might be a weekend plan I have.

KRISTEN: Yes, you absolutely should. No, this has been so much fun. And I love charcuterie boards. I think they bring people together. But also, I'm just a adult kid that loved Lunchables. So that's all we're trying to do is just make Lunchables really nutrient dense and better.

KIM: Nutrient dense and fun as well.

KRISTEN: And fun, yes, absolutely.

KIM: Well, thank you so much.

KRISTEN: It is my pleasure.

ZACH: All right, Kim, a lot of great information we got from Kristen about charcuterie boards. Are you going to change your charcuterie habits after this discussion?

KIM: You know, I think I was really inspired to kind of do maybe like little snack trays. Because I actually have these containers that have the little four sections.

ZACH: Oh, the dividers, yeah.

KIM: Yeah, going with kind of what she said of kind of having a balanced little snack plate of, you know, having the healthy fat, protein, some fiber. You know, I'm into the idea now.

ZACH: See, I'm not much of a snacker, though, which is probably why I'm not Mr. Charcuterie Board as well. I'm more of a gorger. You know, I'm like, "Oh, I'm hungry. I'm going to eat this huge lunch." You know, I do love honey, though. And honey is something that I had not considered being a component of a charcuterie board.

KIM: Oh, yes, I think honey is a very elite pairing for different types of cheeses. I think it's great with goat cheese and some of the other soft cheeses that you might get. So if you're going to make yourself a board, I think that's something to consider.

ZACH: Yeah, another thing you mentioned is celery. And apparently it's a divisive item on the charcuterie board.

KIM: You know, and it makes sense because it can have kind of a divisive texture maybe. It's something that I prefer cooked more than I do raw. But I'm not going to pass it up if like there's hummus or a good dip around.

ZACH: Yeah, to me, celery is more of a dip, sauce transmitter. You know, it's like it's not about the celery. It's like it's a spoon I can eat. Yeah, that's how I look at celery. But good to know I'm not alone because to me, that would be like if I was presented with a charcuterie board, that'd be the pile. I'm like, "Yeah, I'm going to work through all the other vegetables before I get over to you over there, celery." But yeah, see, this stuff intrigues me. You know, like, as far as healthier alternatives that don't seem too intimidating to make at home. That's another appeal of the charcuterie board. A lot of times cooking can be intimidating, and this is not intimidating to me. I feel like that somebody, anyone can do a charcuterie board, right?

KIM: Yeah, I think that's one of the great things about it. You don't have to be making the little meat, salami roses. Like you don't have to do that.

ZACH: I would last about two minutes and be frustrated and be like, "All right, whatever. There's a pile of salami." [Laughing]

KIM: But I think that that's the beauty of it, right? Is you're just basically taking some things that you enjoy, putting them together. It doesn't have to be aesthetic, and it can be a nourishing snack or a meal.

ZACH: All right. Well, I'll let you know how my first charcuterie board goes. I'll send you a picture.

KIM: Yeah, I would love to see.

ZACH: All right. That's going to do it for us this time on On Health with Houston Methodist. Be sure to share, like, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We drop episodes Tuesday mornings. So until next time, stay tuned and stay healthy. ♪ ♪